Cinco Deseos Ranch
Just two litters planned for this year, one Spanish Mastiff litter and one Pyrenean Mastiff litter; reservations are filled and closed now until Atena and Gwangi are bred and pups arrive. If there are more pups than applicants I'll reopen applications at that time. IF you want to procure an application and fill it out in advance, please contact me @ lgdnevada@GMAIL.COM. IF there are pups available, I'll contact you when they are born.
PM: Cinco Deseos Ranch BOBO (Troy Farma Stekot x Sally Farma stekot) to Alto Aragon Atena (Italian import) this spring/Summer for summer purebred PM litter.
SM: Cinco Deseos Gwangi (Furiano del Puerto Canencia x Tioda de Abelgas) will be bred to Hercules del Viejo Paramo, (Spain import) for a Fall/Winter purebred SM litter.
Using Herding and Guardian Dogs Together
Simple Guidelines to Build a Great Team
Copyright 2015 Brenda M. Negri
Many stockmen rely on both herding dogs and Livestock Guardian Dogs to help them in their day to day operations. A frequent question heard from many is “How do I run and use them both together? Won’t it cause problems?” It can be done. Much of your success or difficulties will stem from the upbringing, quality and background of the dogs used, in combination with your willingness to be patient and committed, and understanding the differences between these two types of dogs.
Livestock Guardian Dogs are by nature, protectors. They do not tolerate any stray dogs, predators or anything that could potentially harm their flocks and herds. They guard livestock. They don’t herd it, move it or ‘work’ it. In fact, any type of ‘prey drive’ or an urge to chase livestock, is considered a glaring fault in a LGD, and is never encouraged. They mingle calmly within the stock, lying within a flock, or patrolling the fence line for trouble. They watch the perimeter for threats and tenderly nurture lambs and goat kids. Although occasionally some LGDs may try to help move stock, it is not their true purpose or trait. Gentle giants, they are there to keep your livestock alive and safe, not relocate it.
Herding breeds on the other hand, do just that: they move livestock for their handler from one pasture, field or pen to another. Sometimes the move can be miles. They typically crouch low, show “eye” or very focused eye contact with the stock, and stalk it, moving when directed by the handler, and pushing the sheep, goats or cattle where directed. With cattle, the dogs may stay behind the herd nipping at its heels moving it over several acres or miles on a drive. Herding dogs are typically very active, high energy, in some cases extremely intense and of a nervous nature, and happiest when hard at work.
This type of latter behavior, when seen by a working LGD, is perceived to be a threat to his stock. And who can blame him? For it appears as though the herding dog may be stalking his sheep, in preparation to pounce on them and inflict harm.
So how do you mix these two diverse types of dogs? Some simple suggestions and guidelines follow.
Herding dogs should never be worked in a flock or herd when the LGDs are present and “on duty”. LGDs can easily kill a much smaller herding breed, and will - if they perceive the herders as a threat. So before using the herders, keep them kenneled up, in a trailer or in your truck.
Before you release any herding dogs, remove the LGDs from the flock. Lock them up in a barn or horse trailer, where they preferably cannot have any visuals of the herding dogs in the sheep or goats. Treating them with a big soup bone is a way to ease their stress over being removed from their job and can assist in calming them so they don’t tear your barn down trying to return to the flock.
Once all your moving or sorting of stock is done, put your herding dogs back up in their kennels, trailer or truck, out of sight of the LGDs. Then you can release your LGDs back into the herd.
Can you rear them up from puppyhood together so that they get along? Yes - with patience and by setting some simple rules. Many folks successfully mingle their herding and LGD dogs outside of the livestock. It can definitely be done if the dogs have been raised together and have tolerance of each other. Just don’t mix play or “down time” with work.
*** If raised from puppyhood together, make sure you train them separately. LGDs are bred to be calm, quiet, protectors with good judgment. They are not supposed to be hyperactive and chasing lambs. You do NOT want an LGD with prey drive or "eye".
***When you spend time with your LGD pups in the flock, make sure the focus is on them being calm and comfortable with the livestock. Drag a chair in there, sit down and relax as you praise good behavior and correct undesired behavior. The pups will pick up on your calm state and mirror this. That’s what you want!
***Keep the herding pups out of sight - again, penning them up in another area, away from the stock. Again, a juicy soup bone can be a “miracle worker” with pups, and keeps them content and quiet while you are schooling your LGD pups.
***Likewise when it is training time for the herders, remove the LGD pups from the area and keep them out of sight and if possible hearing range as well, as you work your herder pup on his or her verbal and hand cues and commands.
***Once lessons are done, bring the herders out of the stock. Once outside of the stock the two sets of pups can again mingle and play.
Many people have success with their LGDs living peaceably alongside their herders as long as boundaries are set and some simple rules are followed and reinforced by you with consistency and respect. And of course, you are an integral part of this training process. This does not happen on its own - it takes patience and consistency on your part. Set up a schedule each day, and do your puppy drills. Dogs are like people: they like comfort and consistency in their lives, too. Don’t ask more than these dogs can give. Don’t expect your Kelpie to protect your flock from coyotes because they can’t. Don’t press your Great Pyrenees to play herder: it’s not their role. Respect the purpose and roles each type of dog has, and you’ll be rewarded in the long run with a great team of workers who help you move your stock when needed, and keep them safe.
Bobo and Atena above, Hercules and Gwangi below.
My latest article for sheep! Magazine is on summer prep for your LGD - check it out - subscribe today or go to their website!:
My next article for sheep! comes out in July/August 2017.
NEWS / LITTERS
Developing, raising and training LGDs in a large pack is an art I have learned much about (and continue to do so!) living over many years with so many dogs - at my kennel peak I had 25 adult dogs here excluding pups and litters. I approach living with and training my dogs much as Tom Dorrance taught me and my ranch mentors the Marvel family, with horses and am a devotee of Turid Rugaas' training and understanding methods. There are many similarities - and, many similarities with wolf packs and LGD packs. What is key to a successful pack of LGDs? How can you discern if someone's "pack" is really stable and a solid family of dogs, or just a boastful photo op on the part of a wannabe LGD breeder who actually does not know that they are doing? Do you know what to look for and how to tell this? I do.....and
GOT CHICKENS? NEED TO KEEP THEM SAFE? READ THESE ARTICLES
I WROTE FOR BACKYARD POULTRY AND COUNTRYSIDE MAGAZINES IN 2015!
Buckeye Enthusiast Keeps Heritage Hens Safe
With Livestock Guardian Dogs
Brenda M. Negri with Barbara Judd
Copyright 2015 Backyard Poultry Magazine
You can hear the dedication and sound reasoning in Washington farmer and heritage Buckeye breeder Barbara Judd’s voice when she says why she uses Livestock Guardian Dogs to keep her rare breed of poultry safe from depredation:
“Buckeyes were once in the Critical Category established by the Livestock Conservancy. Thanks to their Buckeye Recovery Project, the breed moved from the Critical to Threatened category on the Conservation Priority List. I am committed to always protecting all my charges, and the fact that this chicken breed is still considered “threatened” gives the importance of their protection even heavier weight. I decided the best protection I could give them would be Livestock Guardian Dogs.”
Using Livestock Guardian Dogs (LGDs) to keep sheep, cattle, goats, alpacas, and other mammalians safe from harm is an age-old practice, although relatively (approximately 30 years) new in North America. Some of the more common LGD breeds in use are the ever popular Great Pyrenees, Akbash, Maremma, Kuvasz and Anatolian Shepherd. Rarer breeds such as the Spanish Mastiff, Pyrenean Mastiff and Karakachan are increasing in numbers and use. Putting LGDs to work to guard poultry, ducks, turkeys, geese and guinea fowl is more of a recent movement in line with the increased number of hobby farms, small family ranches and homesteaders. It’s a commitment of time, patience, and more patience, but LGDs can be successfully trained to guard poultry, and many have come to depend on their dogs to keep their flocks safe from depredation.
Barbara Judd agreed to share her story as to how she came to raising Buckeyes, eventually choosing two sibling LGD pups and two adult siblings, from my ranch and kennel operation in Northern Nevada.
“I had decided I wanted to breed Buckeyes. I had fallen in love with their personality, and their story is intriguing as well,” says Judd. “Buckeyes are a notably personable breed, very active and noted for being especially vigilant in the pursuit of mice. They also are very friendly with people and lack the tendency to feather-pick ach other. The males emit a full range of sounds beyond those typical of many other chicken breeds, including a dinosaur-like roar!”
Judd subsequently got on a wait list for chicks from Laura Haggarty and Pathfinders Farm in Kentucky, and received her hatchlings in spring of 2014. Recently Judd moved to a 55 acre farm she calls Froghaven near Salkum, about an hour north of Portland. Here she plans to add wool sheep, perhaps some goats, and increase her Buckeye flock. “My goal is to become the go-to person for Buckeye chicks and pullets in Western Washington. I love this breed; they are a great dual-purpose chicken for homesteads and fit in well with a back-to-the-farm sentiment.” Barbara further adds, “The cocks can grow to 8 or 9 pounds and are good meat birds. While as layers they are not quite as productive as a White Leghorn, for example, I understand them to live and produce for a longer period of time than the breeds that were developed for their egg-laying ability alone.”
Barbara’s new farm has a host of predators and wildlife, as did her previous one. She admits to not having given much thought to predators at first, but one day commented to a friend, “If I lose a bird to a predator, it will be that one”, pointing out one of the gold sex-links she had. Less than a week later, she discovered a pile of gold feathers, not 20 feet from her house, in the afternoon. Her dire prediction had come true. She immediately began researching how to keep her chickens safe. “My chickens were not raised to be coyote food,” she quips.
Judd read about Livestock Guardian Dogs, “But I was extremely put off by the prevalent and popular descriptions of hands-off training and minimal human interaction. Any dog I own is a part of my family, and I felt the hands-off, do-not-touch descriptions I read just didn’t make sense for us.”
Later that summer she lost another hen to a coyote. Now, she was determined, as well as furious, and bound to find a solution. Judd spent the evening researching LGDs on the Internet.
She continues: “This time, as I looked I discovered another perspective to owning LGDs, living with them and training them, one I had not run across before. I found Brenda Negri’s website for her Cinco Deseos Ranch in Nevada where she’d been raising LGDs since 2009. On her site were several articles she’d authored wherein she expounded at great length about socializing LGDs with people, about LGDs being part of the family, a component of a team, not just a disposable tool or something to be kept at a distance. She reared litters in a huge pack of working LGDs and spoke of how they were mentored and shepherded along by her older, seasoned dogs, and spoke of the continuity and consistency this produced in working pups. Her website was full of information on having LGDs as part of a small farm, small acreage, as well as the rare Spanish breeds she specialized in, being more suitable for this type of duty.”
As it happened, I had a litter of LGD pups on the ground at the time, sired by my trusted old Great Pyrenees, Peso, and a rare Italian import Pyrenean Mastiff female, Atena. Barbara sent me a puppy application, “The stars aligned,” she chuckles, and the Judds became proud new owners of Lucy and Patty, nick named “The Pockets” as they were the two smallest pups in the huge (16 puppies) litter. As if predestined, they also hung out together and were inseparable. Barbara took the pair home at about ten weeks, and LGD Chicken Guarding 101 began!
Patty and Lucy’s litter had already been exposed to my own flock of 40 Cochin, Brahman and Polish layers, with daily visits into the coop and chicken yard. Barbara wisely took my advice, and bought two siblings who roughhoused with one another and wore each other out playing instead of taking out their young energy on livestock and fowl. The pups had also been exposed to neighbor children, cattle and sheep and were showing great interest and promise as guardians.
“Which brings up another point,” Judd adds. “The importance of selecting a knowledgeable and reputable LGD breeder. I had always had rescues as pets….these dogs were to be working dogs, not pets. They were to be socialized and part of the family but I needed them to be LGDs – guaranteed – not maybes. I needed to be certain, and not risk they’d turn out to be chicken killers instead of protectors. So I bought LGDs from a reputable breeder, who had both parents, who were working parents, descended from working lines. And she had references, and many, many clients who came back time and again to buy dogs only from her. That was how reliable and trustworthy her dogs were. Actually, the price I paid was not significantly more than which the rescue organizations ask, and in the large scheme of things is an insignificant cost when you consider the lifetime cost of caring for a pet – or as I’ve heard in poultry circles, ‘It costs the same to feed a breeder’s chick as it does a feed store chick.’”
Once settled in at the new home, Patty and Lucy’s training continued with older, calm hens who were less flighty and thus, less inclined to tempt the pups into chasing. Judd made the training time a “treat time” by positive reinforcement. Each pup received a treat before each short, 10-15 minute “class”. Soon, they were reminding her it was time for “school”.
“I knew this process would take weeks, if not months,” Judd adds. She kept the chickens and pups in a small, very manageable area, and sat with them. No distractions were allowed: no pet dogs, no children and no distractions. “We spent time just hanging out with the chickens, and always ended on a positive note before they got tired.” As time progressed, “The Pockets” became calm and confident around the fowl, remaining alert and interested, but no inappropriate behavior. Judd increased the time the pups were with the flock gradually.
“I came at training the pups in a slow and systematic, careful manner. I learned from Brenda, from previous dog trainers and read the books by noted dog behaviorist, Turid Rugaas that Brenda insisted I read. The pups became part of the daily chicken routine. As puppies, they needed protection too as they were far too young to fend for themselves, so they were never left alone overnight, for example.”
Judd was also learning about unique LGD behavior, which is markedly different than non-LGD breeds. “I can say they are nothing like other dogs I have had. They won’t fetch, they don’t play tug o’ war. They DO seem to notice every detail around them.”
Judd’ observations are accurate. LGD breeds guard on ingrained instinct, not so much training, although the owner will enable, foster and encourage that guarding instinct with positive reinforcement and gentle reprimands when a pup makes a mistake. Tying a dead chicken around a pup’s neck is an oft-quoted “solution” for problems but only encourages confusion and distrust in the pup and shouldn’t be done. There are no short cuts to doing “Chicken 101” with LGD pups, and the owner has to commit to the time and patience it takes.
One night, Judd woke to one of the pups barking at a bookcase. “I had moved a large photo onto that bookcase, and Lucy noticed – something’s not where it belongs!”
A more telling incident happened a week or so after Barbara brought The Pockets home:
“We’d spent a lot of time around the chickens, in their run our out foraging. One early evening we walked by the run and no chickens were in sight. Patty was immediately stressed! She sat down, whining at the run. The chickens had simply put themselves in the coop for the night, so when the hens poked their heads back out to see what th commotion was about, Patty relaxed and was immediately satisfied.” Judd continues, “You could see the wheels turning in Patty’s head – ‘Oh that’s where they are. OK, everything is fine now!’ I was amazed and impressed. These were certainly the right dogs to protect my chickens.”
I have long lectured to my customers about the crucial importance of running enough LGDs to properly cover the acreage, terrain, predator load and stock they have. Dogs like humans, must sleep and rest too, and one LGD cannot last long if it is expected to carry the load of three or four dogs. In addition, should one dog become ill or injured, by removing him from duty, an operator’s flock or herd becomes more vulnerable to attack. Where predators can easily take down one LGD, a pack of three or four dogs will present a much more serious front to any threats. The LGDs if brought up in a pack environment as pups, will know how to work as a team and share coverage. Two will work a “shift”, while the other two rest and eat. One dog may do a “perimeter patrol” while the other two stay closer to the flock. Barbara Judd was a willing and capable pupil and took my advice to heart.
A few short weeks after the move to the larger Froghaven Farm, Barbara brought in two young adult Spanish Mastiffs I had bred who had to be rehomed due the owner’s relocation. Agostin (nicknamed “Auggie”) and Argenta (“Genty”) were two huge pups from my first purebred Spanish Mastiff litter, who’d been guarding horses and chickens in Montana. When Barbara got wind of the pair being up for rehoming, and their experience as fowl guardians, she seized the opportunity to add two “chicken broke”, calm, steadfast guardians to her larger acreage with its more serious predator load.
“My plan is to eventually add a small herd of goats to forage the brush and weeds, and perhaps a heritage breed of wool sheep,” Judd says. “I knew with the larger farm I needed more protection than just two dogs, and sibling pair Auggie and Genty fit the bill to a “T”.” As introductions progress, “The A Team” is getting to know “The Pockets” and progress is going slowly and well. The Judds will keep their heritage flock of Buckeyes safe and sound from depredation with four very devoted Livestock Guardian Dogs. “Since we brought in Lucy and Patty we have never lost a single bird,” and Judd says with the addition of two more dogs, doubts they’ll be losing anything in the future, either.
IMPORTANT TIPS FOR SUCCESS!
Buy pups who are only purebred or crosses of purebred, recognized LGD breeds. LGD breeds crossed on non-LGD breeds are unpredictable and high risk.
Buy from established breeders who will give references, customer support and have a proven track record of producing good guardian dogs.
You get what you pay for. Quality LGD pups typically start at $500 and go up from there. Quality going adults can cost $1,000 on up.
Never bring a pup home younger than 8 weeks of age and make sure all puppy vaccinations are complete, as well as several de-wormings.
If possible buy pups that have been started on and exposed to poultry and fowl. Make sure they have been regularly handled and socialized with people and are not skittish or frightened when approached.
Make sure your fencing is puppy proof and secure.
Remember that rearing LGDs to guard poultry is a labor-intensive endeavor with no short cuts.
Patience and persistence are the key to success.
Protect Your Poultry With Livestock Guardian Dogs, by Brenda M. Negri, Nov/Dec 2015 issue of Countryside Magazine
On Talking Terms with Dogs: Calming Signals, by Turid Rugaas, Copyright 2006 by Dogwise Publishing
Sibling Success! Advantages of Littermate Guardian Dogs, by Brenda M. Negri, Sept/Oct issue of sheep! Magazine
Protect Your Poultry
with Livestock Guardian Dogs
From 2015 Countryside Magazine
Spring and Barn Lambing - a Perfect Time and Place to start young LGD pups - from sheep! Magazine.
Read how to start your pups right with lambs here!
LET'S TALK ABOUT X RAYING SPANISH MASTIFF HIPS FOR HD!
Half of the Spanish Mastiffs in the OFA database are or have been mine: Amaya, Aneto, Ibra, Zaca and Zzeleste. I still hold the record for the most Spanish Mastiffs in this country being OFA'D!
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NAME REGISTRATION BREED SEX COLOR TEST/FILM DATE AGE OFA # TEST
AMAYA DARTIBO CMKUME92710 SPANISH MASTIFF F May 31 2012 25 SPM-4F25F-VPI HIPS
ANETO DEL VIEJO PARAMO NOREG1508160 SPANISH MASTIFF M Feb 7 2012 26 SPM-3F26M-VPI HIPS
DONA MIA OF THE WITCHES MELTINGPOT N0279902 SPANISH MASTIFF F Jan 25 2006 52 SPM-1G52F-PI HIPS
IBRA LUDAREVA NOREG1512974 SPANISH MASTIFF F Mar 13 2012 16 PRELIMINARY GOOD HIPS
ISLA OF THE WITCHES MELTINGPOT N2380408 SPANISH MASTIFF F FAWN & WHITE Apr 11 2009 28 SPM-CA1/28F/C-VPI CARDIAC
ISLA OF THE WITCHES MELTINGPOT N2380408 SPANISH MASTIFF F FAWN & WHITE Dec 10 2008 24 SPM-2G24F-VPI HIPS
JACKIE TORNADEO ERBEN IABCA27669 SPANISH MASTIFF F Mar 16 2015 24 SEVERE UNILATERAL LEFT HIPS
JOSE OF THE WITCHES MELTINGPOT 0510908 SPANISH MASTIFF M Apr 11 2009 21 SPM-CA2/21M/C-PI CARDIAC
ZACA TORNADO ERBEN CMKUME97010 SPANISH MASTIFF F Aug 7 2012 23 PRELIMINARY MODERATE UNILATERAL LEFT HIPS
ZZELESTE TORNADO ERBEN CMKUME97710 SPANISH MASTIFF F Sep 6 2012 24 SEVERE HIPS